"That was real."

[next_to_normal]

penny_lane_42 made a post which prompted a discussion about Spuffy (shocker, I know!) and, less obviously, a comparison to Cordy/Angel. I started to comment, but it turned into a book, so here it is in a new post. I've actually talked about Cordy/Angel before, and while I think I like them more as a romantic pairing than I did then, my feelings about the execution fail in their relationship arc remain the same.

That said, I definitely see parallels between S/B and C/A, in a way that makes me like C/A a lot more precisely because of my Spuffy love. It can be hard to see the similarities because the two couples started at opposite ends of the spectrum and worked their way to the middle - Cordy and Angel started as friends who grew to love each other, whereas Buffy and Spike started as lovers who built a friendship out of the rubble of their destructive affair. But both were a slow build, and at the climax of their relationships (for B/S it's late S7, for C/A it's "You're Welcome"), both couples managed to develop a relationship that encompassed friendship, desire, trust, and love.

I think it helps to start by looking at the characters individually - a lot of people like to compare Angel and Spike because of the whole "vampire with a soul" thing, but superficial comparisons aside, they're not all that alike. In contrast, Angel and Buffy are actually very similar, and Cordy and Spike play corresponding roles in their lives.

Angel and Buffy are both the alphas in the relationship. (This is, in fact, one of the reasons I don't think they could ever work long term as a couple. They're too similar.) They are the heroes, the leaders of their respective teams, the ones who make the big decisions that affect people's lives. There's a lot of responsibility in that, and it can get heavy. Both of them struggle with the pain, the stress, and the isolation that comes with being the Chosen One. They need someone they can trust, someone who understands them in a way that no one else does, someone who will support them and keep them from detaching themselves too much, but also call them out when they're wrong.

Enter Cordelia and Spike. They are the foundation upon which our heroes build. Angel can't function without Cordy - he needs her to keep him sane, to keep him connected to the living, to keep him on the right path. She is his connection to the Powers and his guiding light. Likewise, Buffy depends on Spike - he is her best fighter when she needs back-up, her escape when the world is too much, her strength when she feels like giving up. He is the one she can count on when no one else is there.

Cordy and Spike help Angel and Buffy be heroes. They lift them up, and they love them in a way that doesn't ask for anything in return. Cordy and Spike make them better people. And I think the reverse is true as well - certainly for Spike, whose desire to become the kind of man Buffy would love drove him to do good, to get a soul, and save the world, but also for Cordelia, who became a much more compassionate and mature person with Angel. Cordy and Spike become heroes in their own right, but they never want or need to shine brighter than their respective partners. The mission is what matters, and Cordy and Spike have both dedicated themselves wholeheartedly to someone else's.

S/B is certainly not a pretty ship, so I can see why C/A fans might be dubious at the comparison. It's messy and complicated and occasionally dysfunctional, but it's very real. That's what separates it from the idealized romance of Buffy and Angel. It's not about destiny or star-crossed love; it's just two people trying to muddle through the best they can, and sometimes they get it right and sometimes they get it wrong. And that's a quality I see in C/A - they too are real, they never idealized each other, they never allowed each other anything but the unvarnished truth. (As I said in my previous essay, I think the writers went off the rails trying to make them more epic than they needed to be, so I think it works better in theory than in execution, but that foundation was definitely there, and it could've been so much better than what happened.) They've seen the best and the worst of each other, they understand each other with perfect clarity, and they know... you're the one.

Comments

part two oh jfc

[anythingbutgrey.livejournal.com]

As for the lack of fluffy times, I totally agree - and blame s4 for this entirely, because s3 is actually full of fluffy times, as much as emotional idiots can have fluffy times, but the thing about s4 is that A: joss is an idiot and B: it actually does an absurd amount of reinforcement of the gravity of this relationship. cordy's not in her body, and so that robs us of her and i hate that i hate that, but at the same time, and i was saying this in a comment above, i think certain aspects of her linger for the first few episodes of the season, and, to be quite honest, you're welcome as an episode takes care of all of cordelia's side of this business as far as i'm concerned. i want to see her there and in love with him and entrenched in it in s4, but i get so much of him being in love with her (see: AWAKENING AWAKENING AWAKENING and also INSIDE OUT INSIDE OUT INSIDE OUT OH MY HEART NEARLY DIED AT THAT EPISODE LAUREN I CAN'T EVEN TAKE IT JUST THINKING ABOUT IT BRB SHAKING AND CRYING. and also since i come at this from an angel perspective while everyone else is coming at it from a cordelia perspective, it is quite clear. this is why i can't understand people who are angel (character) fans who aren't c/a. what show are you watching? i understand cordelia, because cordelia loves him but it's complicated and she has her own buffy complex at play here, but if you love angel - which, granted, about five people do - i don't understand how you could not ship cangel, let alone how you could ship bangel. cordelia made him as a character and to ignore that and to shuffle it into a best friend box is to completely miss the entire root of his characterization by series end) - and, as i was saying above as well, i think even when jasmine is parading around in her skin the occasional bursts of OTP time we get from jasmine are rooted in the bits of cordelia that are still floating around inside, until jasmine squelches even this out - that i don't particularly mind their arc in s4 so much as hers. but we know who to blame for that.

would i prefer an alterna!s4 where she isn't evil and they can have otp times and be the best otp this verse has ever seen? of course. well, i happen to think, in terms of narrative construction and arc importance, they are the best otp this verse has ever seen and the only ship i'd really allow to be on the same level in terms of structure could be spuffy, but i don't ship it (YET?!), so there you go. either way, my POINT IS

1. i cannot shut up about these kids what even is this comment doing i am so sorry look at the mess i've made with all of these feelings.
2. otp.
3. i love you.
4. you are stunning. :)

Re: part two oh jfc

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

And again I am in love with your thoughts. Lots and lots of agreement over here. And yeah, I do tend to look at things from Cordy's side because...I like her more. But I like Angel when he's with her, too!

but i don't ship it (YET?!),

GIRL YOU GIVE ME HOPE.

1. I like reading about your feelings! They are delicious!
2. :D
3. I love you, too!
4. You're more stunning!

Re: part two oh jfc

[anythingbutgrey.livejournal.com]

i'm going to combine~ into one comment. :D

I actually don't think that that's what Joss and Co. meant at all--I think they meant it closer to what the common fandom reaction is--but THE AUTHOR IS DEAD, so I'm gonna go with yours! YAY!

but - well, authorial intent, one, as you noted, and two (and this is so ragey i'm sorry i have so many feelings): it's a five second scene and destiny's not the definition of kyrumption. destiny is a destination. fate is different - subtly different, but different. and given the wording, it does sound like a mutual fate as a death, as a close. i do think that angel and cordelia were meant to end up together, but not because of destiny, but because they kept getting pulled together time after time by sheer coincidence and those feelings never changed. see: birthday. best episode ever. and oh actually - i just talked about this yesterday (http://hopesichord.tumblr.com/post/1007502212/misskenton-reprise-and-epiphany). how convenient i should have remembered before i started typing this whole thing out. boo. my point is, and this is so difficult to explain outside of my head, that there is something about angel and cordelia that connects them. and always has and always will, but not on the way that angel and buffy were connected because b/a was a construct, it's something that the powers made happen in order to put them on their respective paths. will always maintain this. angel and cordelia connected on a very human level, a level that was learned and then once it was learned could not be shaken.

- but beyond that a mutual fate doesn't mean romance - i mean, kyrumption means meeting on a battlefield ffs. the first time i heard that - hell, when i still hear that - i thought of kyrumption as something that would lead to the death of one or both parties, but with a serious amount of respect. like a joust, if you will, and that's a definition i can get behind because it DID lead to the death of one or both parties. angel/cordelia had a mutual fate in the mission, not in each other, and that is why she ends up dead and he ends up fighting a dragon. also, fred'a four year old in that scene whatever. i just don't understand why it has managed to follow this ship around for so long, you know? and the entire rest of the show is about how destiny is bullshit constructions anyway, and a good deal of s4/5 is about rejecting destiny as a general rule. GOD THIS IS SO LONG I'M SO SORRY I HAVE SO MANY FEELINGS.

and this fandom has been reading so much on this show against what a thorough analysis will tell you that i have just grown to ignore whatever fandom says at this point. this fandom ships wes/fred and thinks they are actually in love with each other, and hates cordelia and thinks she's flat and that angel is brooding and boring and that this show has no merit and that his characterization can be ignored so he can kiss buffy summers, so i have just decided they're not watching. because no. not at all. no. stop. no. no.

it makes me sad that most people don't love angel. i think if they did it would make a lot of this ship and this show make more sense. in fact, the only way to make s3-5 make any sense at all, imo, is to recognize that angel loves cordelia. i know that when i look at c/a from cordy's perspective, i really had to work through it a lot because the show did it pretty quietly on her side. pretty much i dwell in birthday and you're welcome and that tells me everything i need to know, but i have feelings on this. but from angel's side? he loved her so much he couldn't see straight.

this is so fucking long. i'm sorry. i just have so many feelings.

- but i will clarify, s4?

shut that shit down. i want you're welcome all the time too. that episode was perfect. THEY'RE LIKE BUDDY COPS WHO ARE IN LOVE WITH EACH OTHER AND REFUSE TO STAND MORE THAN FIVE FEET APART THE ENTIRE TIME (except when cordy's shutting down that thing in w&h's basement) I LOVE THEM.

Re: part two oh jfc

[eleusis-walks.livejournal.com]

and this fandom has been reading so much on this show against what a thorough analysis will tell you that i have just grown to ignore whatever fandom says at this point. this fandom ships wes/fred and thinks they are actually in love with each other, and hates cordelia and thinks she's flat and that angel is brooding and boring and that this show has no merit and that his characterization can be ignored so he can kiss buffy summers, so i have just decided they're not watching. because no. not at all. no. stop. no. no.

fucking marry me right fucking now i swear to god

Re: part two oh jfc

[anythingbutgrey.livejournal.com]

HAHAHAHAHAHA ♥