Food for thought

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This is something I never noticed from "As You Were," which I only just picked up on while rereading the transcript. Here's Riley's speech to Buffy at the end of the episode (with Buffy's interjections edited out):

"Buffy, none of that means anything. It doesn't touch you. You're still the first woman I ever loved and the strongest woman I've ever known. And I'm not advertising this to the missus, but you're still quite the hottie. [...] So you're not in the greatest place right now. And maybe I made it worse. Wheel never stops turning, Buffy. You're up, you're down... it doesn't change what you are. And you are a hell of a woman."

Sound... familiar?

Here's Spike's speech from "Touched":

"I'm not asking you for anything. When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you. And I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy."

Seems interesting to me that two very different lovers of Buffy's would hit on such similar themes, even use the exact same wording at times. (Particularly when Riley's speech comes in an episode where Spuffy fans love to vilify him.) Don't know what it means, but it sure is interesting, and I've never seen it pointed out before.

Comments

[silverusagi]

Interesting. Who were the writers for the episodes? I wonder if it was intentional that they both said "hell of a woman," or was just one of those things.

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Doug Petrie wrote "As You Were" and Rebecca Rand Kirshner wrote "Touched." It does beg the question of whether it's intentional, but that would mean that one of the greatest Spuffy moments ever was actually kind of a rip-off of a Buffy/Riley moment...

[silverusagi]

I don't keep up with things like this (writers), but I don't suppose one of them was anti-Spike and one was pro-Spike? Maybe someone wanted to overshadow a Riley moment with a greater Spuffy moment?

Or, given the complete lack of continuity on the show, no one noticed similar words had already been said.

No one's probably pointed it out before (at least that we've seen) because Spuffy fans seem to hate As You Were, and avoid watching it. :)

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I don't know... Doug Petrie is best known for "Fool For Love," so he can't be that anti-Spike, lol. Kirshner's episodes don't stand out as being particularly pro- or anti-Spike, and she's not one of the more vocal writers (unlike, say, Espenson and Fury, who've made their feelings about Spike pretty obvious) so I don't know where she stands.

[silverusagi]

I'm voting for "they forgot someone had already said that," then. Because I can't for any reason figure out why having Spike echo Riley's words would be intentional.

I don't deny that Buffy is one hell of a woman, or that Riley and Spike would both see that in her, but there's no reason to say it so similarly.

[fangfaceandrea.livejournal.com]

you have see Dough Petrie's interviews and commentaries haven't you?

The man worships any and every Riley/Marc Blucas shaped thing in the show/planet. You don't know the definition of man crush until you hear and see him talking about Riley. He's not anti Spike though, but he always wants to make Riley look good.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

lol. Word. Watch the commentary on The Initiative. Petrie probably has a shrine to Riley in his bedroom.

Which is part of the problem with AYW because the writer was just too invested in making Riley "look cool" when a lot of fans were, obviously, ready to be openly hostile towards him.

Like fangfaceandrea, I've never gotten the impression that Petrie was in the Spike=evil camp, though.

[next_to_normal]

Yeah... I really don't mind making Riley look cool - we all have our favorites - but if he'd spent a little more time making sure his plot didn't look like Swiss cheese, it'd be a lot harder for the fans to rip Riley apart in this episode (or theorize that he's some ubervillain mastermining this whole scheme).

[silverusagi]

you have see Dough Petrie's interviews and commentaries haven't you?

Um, probably, and no. I watched a lot of interviews when I watched the series the first time, but I've probably forgotten them. I know I don't remember who said what. And commentaries never really did it for me. Maybe I'm a bad fan, LOL, but I just don't find actually listening to commentaries to be that interesting.

[fangfaceandrea.livejournal.com]

well you're not supposed to remember every little thing they said, I certainly don't, but his Riley love leaves deep marks in your soul. LOL

really, what gabrielleabelle said, the commentaries for The Initiative are to die for. It's kinda cute actually, Petrie's a funny guy in general but he's like a kid on Christmas when he get to write Riley.