Where are the female anti-heroes?

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I was listening to the Firewall & Iceberg Podcast today, and one of the topics they addressed was the fan reaction to the wives of anti-hero characters. Think Betty Draper, Skyler White, or Carmella Soprano - in any other context, they'd be the sympathetic partner, even considered a victim, but because their husbands (despicable as they may be) are the show's main characters, the women tend to get a lot of hate for (a) inadvertently complicating the husbands' secret lives, (b) trying to find out their secrets, and/or (c) daring to call them on their shit. As if wanting to know what your husband is hiding from you is an unreasonable expectation. As if being appalled is an inappropriate response to the revelation that he is a murderer/drug dealer/mob boss/cheater/scumbag/whatever.

Okay, preaching to the choir here, I know. Anyway, the comment that prompted this post was wondering whether the reaction would be the same if it were a female character who was the anti-hero, and her husband/partner was the one standing in the way of her criminal enterprise, or if their respective genders matter. Now, the podcast is made by dudes, so I'll forgive them for not knowing the obvious answer (yes, of course gender matters) and skip right to what I think is most interesting:

This is entirely a hypothetical question, because as far as I can tell, there are no female anti-heroes like that, much less ones with a hated spouse/partner to use as a comparison.

Seriously - can anyone think of one? Because I'd probably really like that story. The closest I can come up with is Veronica Mars, who's a ruthless and occasionally cruel person who has no qualms about breaking the law to get what she wants. The parallel is strongest in season 3 - before that, she's still the plucky, albeit flawed, heroine, whereas in season 3 she becomes flat-out unlikable at times. But even then, I don't think she ever reaches the level of a Don Draper or a Walter White.

Similarly, characters like Katniss or Buffy or Elena, although they may go through unlikable phases, never lose their "heroine" sheen. They're just good people going through remarkably difficult situations. And frequently THEY are the ones who get the fan hate, not their put-upon male partners, which goes back to the thing about gender influencing fan reactions.

I suppose that answers my own question about why there aren't more female characters that could be considered anti-heroes, doesn't it? If fans will react so negatively to flawed female heroines, God only knows how badly they'd eviscerate a female Don Draper. But y'all know how I love me some flawed characters, especially ladies, so if you can think of any - or have any other thoughts on the subject - please chime in!

Comments

[ruuger]

You know, I was thinking of this exact same thing when I watched The Avengers because the way everyone was talking about Black Widow, I thought she was going to be one (of the working towards redemption kind at least). And I was really excited about that, because borderline-sociopath-formerly-evil-heroes are my thing! But no, she vaguely talked about the horrible things that she'd done, but not once was there even a slightest suggestion that she might be anything less than a straight-up hero now.

I'd say Jackie in Nurse Jackie definitely counts as an antihero, since she's basically the female equivalent of House, maybe also Kerry Weaver on ER (she started off as an antagonists but was definitely one of Our Heroes by the end). Bad Girls, which is a British show about a women's prison also had several characters that I think would count.

But those are all in drama. It's harder to think of examples from 'manlier' genres. Sarah Connor in T2, maybe? I think scifi and action movies are so geared towards the male gaze that women still aren't generally allowed any other roles than the victim/lover or the (Sexy) Spinny Killbot - the moral scale on a female characters seems to be usually determined on simply how willingly they use their sexuality and 'feminine wiles' to get what they want...

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I think the consensus is that I need to watch Nurse Jackie, lol! (Interesting, too, that it's Edie Falco who plays the most-mentioned anti-hero, after playing the anti-hero's wife for years.)

the moral scale on a female characters seems to be usually determined on simply how willingly they use their sexuality and 'feminine wiles' to get what they want...

I think that's probably true even outside the sci-fi and action genres. It's kinda funny to me (in a gross, depressing sort of way) how the worst thing fictional women can do, apparently, is use their sexuality or their "feminine wiles." Male anti-heroes get to commit all sorts of heinous crimes, but women? They only seduce.

Of course, the use of their sexuality is only a ~moral issue for women because their purity is valued, which is not something you ever see with male characters.