Instead of character bashing...

[next_to_normal]

Write them an angry, ranting letter!

Consider this a public service announcement. No one I know (or at least, no one I respect) wants to read a fic in which one character is unfairly portrayed because of the author's personal dislike of and bias against said character. No one wants to read a fic in which that character is badly mistreated by the other characters (who, canonically, tend to be friends, family, and/or lovers... y'know, people who generally don't hate you) because all the other characters are acting as proxies for the author who just wants to express his or her hate.

So, stop doing it. If you have that many issues that you feel compelled to bash characters, I recommend the dear_character comm. You can rant, vent, chastise, whatever you want, and post it in a place where people go specifically to read angry rants about characters.

Have fun!

Comments

[kudagirl.livejournal.com]

I understand your point. If the story is in canon then the characters are clearly developed. If the story isn't canon, then the author has the option to write them as they please. I, as a reader, have the choice to either read or not. Both the author and the reader have to decide what they enjoy. I did visit the site you mentioned. Didn't read much of it because most of the letters didn't interest me with the characters they wrote about. Fan fiction is a wide venue with lots of differing options of how to use the characters.

[next_to_normal]

If the story isn't canon, then the author has the option to write them as they please.

I would disagree. Regardless of the type or setting of the story, if you're writing a story using Buffyverse characters, I think they should be recognizable as the Buffyverse characters. Not written "however you please." Even if it's an AU or an AH - otherwise, you may as well just write an original story with characters you made up yourself. That's one of the reasons I don't read many AHs - I rarely find that the characters are much more than people who have the same names as and bear a physical resemblance to the Buffyverse characters.

[kudagirl.livejournal.com]

There are fans who find subtext in canon that others never see. Many authors write only slash which is not canon at all, but is still very popular. Many fans enjoy fantasizing about how they want the character to act. A story doesn't have to be pure Joss style for me to enjoy it. If a story writes Xander as a horrible person who tries to kill his friends, it wouldn't be one I would enjoy, but someone might. If a story has Spike and Buffy having a loving relationship with lots of babies that is not canon. Doesn't mean it is wrong to write a story like that. It just means it found a different audience.

Just saying if you prefer canon, that's your style of fiction. They are a lot of fans who love reading stories that aren't canon but use the characters they love. Sometimes they use a character as the villain who wasn't a villain in canon. It's about the storytelling and not meant to insult a fan of that character.

[next_to_normal]

I think you're confusing "canon" with "in character." You can write things that are in character without following canon. Technically, unless you're writing a FITB, nothing in fanfic is canon, because we're all branching off from some point and writing something that never happened.

There are plenty of stories out there that make a good character a villain, or put two people in a relationship that weren't in one in canon, and it works because the author shows how it could happen based on what we know of the characters. Like you said, you can find subtext in a pairing, or an underlying dark side that was only hinted at. That's not what I'm talking about.

What I'm talking about is when the characters do or say things that don't make sense with who they are, and the author gives no explanation for it - the only reason Xander is acting like a horrible person is because the author thinks he's a horrible person and wants everyone else to think he's a horrible person, too. That's not a story; that's a manifesto.

[kudagirl.livejournal.com]

One may see it as OOC while another may see it as a manifesto. If I don't like the manner that an author uses the characters then I just don't read the story. I just don't make a big deal of it. If a character who never was cruel or say, a rapist, is written that way it is for story purposes. Doesn't mean that the author has an agenda toward that character. Fan fiction writers play with the characters. Some change the characters and that is just their story. They like using characters that others will be able to visualize easily. It's not a vendetta, but just a story.

[next_to_normal]

Right... and what I'm saying is, I don't like stories where the author makes it a vendetta. There are plenty of people who write OOC for other reasons, but my post was directed at people who hate characters and want to yell at them. That's what the comm is for.

If you notice, my original post never mentioned OOC. It mentioned bashing, which usually means OOC, but the two are not necessarily synonymous.

Sidebar - I don't really like anything where the characters are OOC, but that's a different discussion.

[dragonflylady77.livejournal.com]

*whines* but i like stories with a bit of Angel or Riley bashing. Makes me hope the other characters would have seen the light about how manipulative Angel really is and stuff.. *sigh*

And I suck at analysing stuff too...


*waits patiently for another chapter of Closure and hopes Buffy finds that tape soon and goes all Xena on someone's ass*

[next_to_normal]

Sorry, can't agree with you there... I'm not a fan of bashing of any kind.

"Closure" should be updated soon, assuming I don't get too distracted with going home this weekend.

[speakr2customrs.livejournal.com]

I'm not a fan of bashing of any kind.

And yet I've seen you credited as a beta on a fic by perhaps the most notorious character-basher in the entire fandom. I haven't read that particular fic, because I became so tired of the bashing that I gave up on her despite her being a fairly accomplished writer, and I suppose that she might for once have written a non-bashing fic; I'd be surprised, though.

[next_to_normal]

Hmm... I'm curious who you mean (I do beta for a lot of people, and I haven't read nearly all their work). You can PM me if you don't want to post the name here. I will drop a story if the author insists on character bashing, so most likely it was a non-bashing fic. I just refused to beta a fic not too long ago because the author refused to change her treatment of Angel, but that was a new author who didn't seem to know the difference.

[rahirah]

I've just been reading a fic which at its best is two parts wonky brilliance to one part pure crack, and the chapter that nearly made me give up on the whole thing was the gratuitous bashing chapter - I mean, this character serves no purpose at all in the story (so far, anyway) save to show up so he can get bashed.

Woe.

[next_to_normal]

*sigh*

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the rec. And I couldn't agree more with your post or said it better myself.

[next_to_normal]

Thanks! I haven't seen many characters I recognized on the comm, but the idea cracks me up.

[appomattoxco.livejournal.com]

Got here from the herold. I think character bashing is silly in the Buffyverse. If a I want to write one character saying something awful to another I can do it by picking the right time frame and the right character to do it. Like any family or long term group of friends they all hated or dissaproved of each other at some point. And there were plenty that were enemies.

I think most people who would bother with this comm already understands this but it's an interesting idea.

Most of the stuff I write is very AU because I like Giles/Anya but I try to keep the characters voices true. They might grow in the course of story but I want the root to be true or what's the point?

[next_to_normal]

I figured it was a more creative way of advertising the comm than just "hey, go here!" :) We're definitely in agreement on keeping the characters' voices true - especially if you're changing a lot from canon, how will we know they're the same people if they don't sound the same?

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

(Following the link from sunnydale herald)

Totally agree with the sentiment. I hate when I read a story and find that some character is used as a whipping post/object to be pilloried out of what is clearly a writer's dislike of the character... even if I happen to also dislike that character. When I run across a story like that, it strikes me as poor writing because, to me, good writing involves presenting characters in some context where they at least somewhat resemble the characters in canon, otherwise why not call it original fiction?

That said, there's really no way force such a point of view on fandom. People write for all different sorts of reasons and if I've learned anything from BtVS fandom is that it's entirely possible for people within fandom to have wildly different views of what is "in character" and "out of character" for the canon characters. POV's range just that much.

Personally, if the view or treatment of a character is well beyond my view of them, I skip the story. And if it feels like a character-bashing type of story, I tend to not only skip the character but lower my opinion of the author. Can't really help that as it's purely an emotional reaction.

I do realize, however, that there's no such thing as everyone in fandom reacting the same way to things. Some people actually enjoy character bashing fics, so I shrug. I don't like or enjoy it myself but... whatever.

(And I hope you don't mind if I friend you.)

[next_to_normal]

Yep, same here. I dislike bashing even when I also dislike the character - Riley's a prime example. He gets bashed pretty frequently in Spuffy fic, and I really don't care for the character, but I'd rather not see him in the story at all than see him being bashed.

And if it feels like a character-bashing type of story, I tend to not only skip the character but lower my opinion of the author.

Yeah, I do that, too. I also admit that my opinion lowers a little when I find people who like to read character bashing fics, as well.

I think part of it comes from my opinion that character bashing is just objectively bad writing, regardless of whether I like the character or not. I put it in the same category as things like inconsistent characterization, incoherent plot, and poor pacing. Like you said, everyone has different tastes, and I have no problem with that when it comes to pairing, genre, etc. But - and maybe this is what makes me elitist - I don't think we should treat fanfic like kindergarten, where you get a gold star just for participating. Some stuff is just bad, and the fact that a lot of people read it and like it doesn't make it any less bad (see also: "Twilight"). So I do tend to have a lower opinion of those who read or write bad fic.

(And no, I don't mind at all! Welcome!)

[robas.livejournal.com]

Excellent post. I'm a newbie in the Buffyverse and a B/A shipper who loves Spike and has a soft spot for B/S. I've only recently started reading fic, mostly B/A and in some of those Spike is really short-changed and sometimes bashed. It bugs me.

[next_to_normal]

Thanks! Spuffy and Bangel shippers seem to be some of the worst offenders in character bashing. I think it's because there's such serious hatred and intolerance between the ships (dating from years back, well before my time, which is probably why I think it's all pretty stupid), and so Spike gets bashed in B/A fic, and Angel gets bashed in B/S fic.

And then you've got the Spangel shippers who feel the need to bash Buffy for interfering and preventing the hot manpire sex...

[cafedemonde.livejournal.com]

I totally get what you're saying. I was reading a fic and I liked it for the most part, the premise of it at least. There were some grammar issues that I over looked, run on sentences etc, but I was enjoying it until...

One character was behaving a lot more brashly and speaking more harshly than she ever did in canon and I was just not able to get past it. So the rest of the read was less pleasant for me, but I finished because I was invested in the plot by then.

A

[next_to_normal]

I hate it when that happens! When you're all into a fic and then something happens where you're just like, "ugh," but you have to keep reading because now you're invested. Sometimes I can suck it up and finish it, but there are some things that are just deal-breakers for me.

[ladycat713.livejournal.com]

There is this writer on ff.net called queen boadecia who is such a rabid Spike hater that the things she makes her characters do to hurt Spike show them in the worst possible light.

I don't think that she realized that Spike came off as the best person in her fics evewn though she made it obvious she was anti-Spike.

[next_to_normal]

Never heard of her, but it doesn't surprise me. People with an agenda often don't see what their fic is really saying, only what they want it to say.

[bendy1.livejournal.com]

But Buffy is liek totally a stuck up beyatch who would dump her friends to have Angel liek her moar.

I suck at summerys no flames plz!

[next_to_normal]

Oh dear... lol.

[silver_galaxy]

I definitely agree with what you're saying and its not just the Buffy fandom where it occurs. I've read a number of stories in another fandom by a particular author (who's normally a good writer) and found that the monologue that one of the characters gave bashing another was almost exactly the same as one the author gave a couple of weeks earlier (of course when I pointed this out to her she had the nerve to say that perhaps I was being too sensitive). To me that just seems like poor writing and the author would be better off getting out their soapbox instead of trying to incorporate their opinions into fic. I've also seen slash authors who have been especially vicious to female characters and make them the most horrible person you can imagine in order to keep them away from the males, which is one of the reasons I won't read slash.

Obviously everyone views characters and what canon is differently but I think eventually you can get to the stage where you are just too far away from what you see on screen and the only thing the remains of the character is their name

[next_to_normal]

To me that just seems like poor writing and the author would be better off getting out their soapbox instead of trying to incorporate their opinions into fic.

Yes! Exactly that. I've noticed the vicious female characters in slash, as well - it's the same principle as the Buffy/Angel/Spike triangle. There has to be a reason why character A is getting with character B rather than their canon love interest, so the poor third wheel gets bashed all to hell just to prove that character A shouldn't be with them.

There are definitely different views of the characters, but if you think Buffy was only a heinous bitch, and never a hero who sacrificed everything she loved to save the world, or you think Spike was only an unrepentant murderer who never tried to do good and redeem himself, or if you think Angel was only a manipulative asshole who never did anything noble or champion-worthy... then I don't know what show you're watching... you know?

[silver_galaxy]

I've also read some Willow centric fics where the authors have twisted Buffy and Xander, and occasionally Giles, into these horrible people who don't care about Willow one bit and are just using her for her computer/magic/research skills. Clearly this is not an accurate portryal and the author is just trying to bash these characters. Although if you hated Buffy I have no idea why you would want to write BTVS fic, but still. But what seems strage to me is that in the BTVS fandom, so many people seem to want to bash Buffy and claim that she is a horrible and selfish person. How they fit the fact that Buffy keeps saving the world into their views I don't know

[next_to_normal]

Really? That's a trope I haven't seen before, although to be fair I don't read much Willow-centric fics. I can sort of see how Willow might feel that the others are using her for her skills at some point, but it'd have to be an extraordinarily tight POV to convince me that it's not the author editorializing through the story - e.g. Willow perceiving them as mean rather than them actually being mean. Also, she would have to be in a seriously bitchy mood to interpret all their actions as horrible. She wouldn't have been friends with them for seven years if they always treated her poorly.

Although if you hated Buffy I have no idea why you would want to write BTVS fic, but still.

It boggles the mind. Just as boggling is the author who loves Spike and hates Buffy, but writes Spuffy fiction anyway. Wouldn't you prefer to see Spike with someone you like?

[silver_galaxy]

Thats the thing about the Willow fics, she isn't the one percieving it that way. It's either the author's commentary or another character pointing it out, often Angel

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

Total agreement! Character-bashing only strikes me as bad-lazy writing. You hate the character so much, don't write about them. That's not the case, though, isn't it? "I hate this character so much. I'm gonna show people how awful-bad-stupid-whiny-useless this character is." That's the real deal to character-bashing.

Writing is easy for me because I dislike no character (watching the show instead of reading fanfic for a while helped a great deal :)) I only worry about how they talk when I write, not how they act, which is much easier since I hate no character.

Characters I can't write or I'm not interested to write, I just don't write. So simple, less headache-y.

[next_to_normal]

Yeah, that's pretty much the tactic I take. I mean, why bother even including them if you don't like them? Even if you want to do a season 4 fic, but you hate Riley... write him out quickly, and you'll never have to see him again. What's so hard about that?

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

This is what I meant. The real matter is: They hate this character and they want to show why to their readers. Sometimes it turns out to be more meta than fic because they make one character lists the reasons why this character sucks.