30 Days of TV - Day 11

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Day 01 - A show that never should have been canceled
Day 02 - A show you wish more people were watching
Day 03 - Your favorite new show (aired this TV season)
Day 04 - Your favorite show ever
Day 05 - A show you hate
Day 06 - Favorite episode of your favorite TV show
Day 07 - Least favorite episode of your favorite TV show
Day 08 - A show everyone should watch
Day 09 - Best scene ever
Day 10 - A show you thought you wouldn't like but ended up loving

Day 11 - A show that disappointed you

This will probably come as no surprise to most of you: Dollhouse. I admit, I was somewhat cautious right from the beginning, when the show was first announced, both because it seemed like way more than Eliza Dushku could handle as an actress, and because it seemed like Joss was making the same mistakes he made with Firefly - taking on a very ambitious world-building (which he sucks at) and concepts that were way too complicated. And I don't mean complicated as in difficult to understand, because I HATE that Whedonesque attitude that if you don't like what Joss is doing, it's clearly something wrong with you - you're not smart enough or not putting enough effort into it or whatever. That's bullshit. When I say complicated, I mean Joss is trying to do too many things at once and not accomplishing any of them. It's great to have a polysemic show, but when people don't know what to make of your show because you've thrown so many conflicting ideas at them, that's bad storytelling.

But Dollhouse definitely had potential, otherwise there'd have been no expectations to disappoint. The supporting cast was fantastic, one of the best Joss has ever put together. There was a lot of depth to explore in the show's themes, if only Joss had been able to pick a few and stick with them. Some aspects were rather disturbing, and I don't have faith that Joss could've executed them well even under the best conditions (how do you subvert exploitation without to some extent engaging in it yourself?), but I'm pretty sure it would've been a fascinating implosion. :) Once we got past the Imprint of the Week episodes, the mythology that started to develop was really interesting.

And then it all went to hell.

Suddenly realizing that he had about five years worth of plot and only half a dozen episodes left, Joss decided to be a complete crazy person and try to tell the whole damn story in a compressed version on fast forward. Now, Joss' plots are often held together with shoestrings and paperclips under the best of circumstances, so there was really no hope that any of it would make sense here. But to make matters worse, the show completely dropped all of the interesting questions it had been asking about identity and morality and turned into an evil corporation conspiracy show that was all about action and not about character. There was very little emotional resonance in the last few episodes (with the exception of some nice moments in "Epitaph Two"), and that's always the one thing that works in a Joss show, even when the plot resembles Swiss cheese. I honestly don't think Joss could've done more to emphasize his weaknesses and completely ignore his strengths if he'd deliberately tried.

It's a shame, because given five years, it might've actually been a good story. But I don't feel bad for Joss. I can't count how many people said, "Everybody knows Joss is a slow starter, you have to give him time to build." Well, yes, and that's a brilliant way to get canceled, and he's woefully ignorant of the way that TV actually works if he thinks he doesn't need to adapt his style. He was lucky with BtVS that the show had time to grow, but most viewers (and networks) are not patient enough to sit through an entire season before the show actually gets good. And his subsequent efforts have absolutely not earned him the trust he seems to expect. If you want me to stick around, you need to give me a reason, instead of squandering potential left and right until you realize, "Oh, shit. I'm out of time."

Honorable Mention: Caprica is another show that didn't live up to its potential. Then, of course, there are the usual suspects (shows that disappointed me by being so crashingly bad after making me love them): Gilmore Girls, Heroes, and Bones.

And the rest of the days, for those who want to play along...

Day 12 - An episode you've watched more than 5 times
Day 13 - Favorite childhood show
Day 14 - Favorite male character
Day 15 - Favorite female character
Day 16 - Your guilty pleasure show
Day 17 - Favorite mini series
Day 18 - Favorite title sequence
Day 19 - Best TV show cast
Day 20 - Favorite kiss
Day 21 - Favorite ship
Day 22 - Favorite series finale
Day 23 - Most annoying character
Day 24 - Best quote
Day 25 - A show you plan on watching (old or new)
Day 26 - OMG WTF? Season finale
Day 27 - Best pilot episode
Day 28 - First TV show obsession
Day 29 - Current TV show obsession
Day 30 - Saddest character death

Comments

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Yup. You're my TV soulmate alright.

taking on a very ambitious world-building (which he sucks at) and concepts that were way too complicated. And I don't mean complicated as in difficult to understand, because I HATE that Whedonesque attitude that if you don't like what Joss is doing, it's clearly something wrong with you - you're not smart enough or not putting enough effort into it or whatever. That's bullshit.

YES. There are no words for how violently I agree with this.

Agreed on the supporting cast. I will always be thankful for this show because it gave me Enver. :D By and large, Joss knows how to pick actors. Though I think you and I have had a conversation(ish) about how the ones he's most taken with are usually the ones who impress us least?

(how do you subvert exploitation without to some extent engaging in it yourself?),
A hard question and one he doesn't even seem concerned about asking. *sigh*

As for the rest of your thoughts on how and why it didn't work, I think I just broke something by agreeing with you so hard. This is brilliant.

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Hee! Oh, TV soulmate, what shows should I be watching?

And yes, I do believe we've had that conversation. :) I get the sense that the ones he's most taken with has very little to do with acting talent, and more with personal compatibility. What it says about Joss that he's most compatible with his least talented actors, I'm not sure. :)

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I'm gonna think about which shows you've never mentioned so I can come back with a rec-list for you!

What it says about Joss that he's most compatible with his least talented actors, I'm not sure.

I wasn't gonna go there, but I'm glad you did!

[angearia.livejournal.com]

A hard question and one he doesn't even seem concerned about asking. *sigh*

Now, I don't think that's true. He took Dollhouse to Equality Now to ask the feminists how it came across. He pitched the show to Equality Now. It seems he was asking these questions long before we were even aware of the show's existence.

I agree with everything else, but not that.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Well, I didn't know all of that stuff. But I still think he fails at it, pretty often. And he hasn't asked those questions about S8, I don't think. I don't think he asked them about his portrayal of Inara and the Companion culture on Firefly, either.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think the problem is that he asks the questions, but then does it anyway. Which is just... wrong. And I totally agree that he's probably not even asking about Season 8. Blerg.

With Companion Culture, I think he believed he was inverting it and thus was golden. He didn't think about it enough there.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I think we don't disagree--I'll rephrase my original sentence: I don't think he's ever learned how to ask the right questions and then apply any answers he might learn in a constructive way. And I definitely think he's got a lot of unexamined privilege bogging him down.

With Companion Culture, I think he believed he was inverting it and thus was golden. He didn't think about it enough there.

Exactly.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I think we don't disagree

Lol, I know, I was agreeing with you, too. :)

Here, have an icon where Dollhouse was brilliant. ♥

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

No, I just meant that I really appreciate you pointing that out (because I wasn't aware) so that I could make my rephrasing more accurate!

OH THAT EPISODE. I still love it with all my heart.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

You know, I think my communication skillz are off atm. I just woke up from a nap.


Also, I think Joss's fatal flaw is arrogance. He's sensitive enough to ask the questions, but he's just arrogant enough to think he's dealt with the issue sufficiently to push through. It's the sort of brash arrogance that gets him into trouble.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Nah, it's all good. Don't worry about it. *is jealous of your nap*

Perhaps so. I don't know enough about him on a personal level to say, but I could definitely see that being the case.

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Again, see icon.

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See icon.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Most useful icon ever.

*nods*

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

But to make matters worse, the show completely dropped all of the interesting questions it had been asking about identity and morality and turned into an evil corporation conspiracy show that was all about action and not about character.

This. .Indeed, the conspiracy plot exemplified the sort of storytelling that I thought the intersting questions were challenging.

Agree with the rest of what you say, as well. I don't mind the slow starts of themselves, but it's not realistic in network television.

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You know, I was thinking about the slow start thing recently, and I think the reason I find it so bizarre that Joss can't put together a good first season is because most of the shows I love have had pilots (or at least first seasons) that knock it out of the park. I went out and bought the DVDs for FNL and Psych just based on the first few episodes. BSG hooked me with the first episode after the miniseries. The West Wing has the best pilot ever. Veronica Mars and Community both had an amazing first season. So when people talk about how we have to give Joss a chance because it's SO HARD to make a good show right out of the gate, I wonder why he seems to be the only genius who can't manage it.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

HA!

Oh, yeah.

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

He was lucky with BtVS that the show had time to grow, but most viewers (and networks) are not patient enough to sit through an entire season before the show actually gets good. And his subsequent efforts have absolutely not earned him the trust he seems to expect. If you want me to stick around, you need to give me a reason, instead of squandering potential left and right until you realize, "Oh, shit. I'm out of time."

Since other people have agreed with the other points you've made, I'm gonna do my big "Wordy McWordison" to this. I think he needed to sit on the concept longer to streamline it so that it could be clarified and expressed better than needing five pilots to get the point across. Television (and in particular Fox) is a different environment than the one BtVS was developed in, and you don't get an entire half season of free throws to get it right. To think differently would be self-indulgent, a fault I think Joss is currently very guilty of (see: Season 8 for a good example).

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I think he needed to sit on the concept longer to streamline it so that it could be clarified and expressed better than needing five pilots to get the point across.

Exactly. I think there is the inclination to blame Fox for making him do five pilots in a row, but the fact is, his original pilot didn't work, and they were right to make him redo it. Honestly, I think he could've done a LOT more with those five episodes, but it seems like petty!Joss came out to play and he decided to not even bother, just so he could say, "Look how Fox ruined my show again!"

Right from the beginning, the promotional message was, "Don't worry, it gets better! Just wait until episode six!" It's like they didn't even TRY with the first five.

And WORD on the self-indulgence.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

but it seems like petty!Joss came out to play and he decided to not even bother, just so he could say, "Look how Fox ruined my show again!"

I don't think Joss came across like that. He was pretty emphatically supportive in saying FOX was being supportive but wanted something different. And he was struggling to meet those expectations. I think Fandom is what did all the FOX bashing.

I'm curious about your thoughts on the original pilot Echo.

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I agree fandom did a lot more Fox bashing than Joss did, but I also don't totally buy his buddy-buddy relationship with Fox. The first five episodes just reek of giving Fox exactly what they asked for without trying to make it good.

Either that, or it really was Joss' best effort and they just suck.

Anyway, the pilot. To be fair, I only read the script, so maybe it worked better on screen (it was an extra on the DVDs, right?). But I got the sense that Joss wanted to just jump right in with what ended up being Man on the Street, and I felt like that didn't do a good enough job of establishing the premise. It tried to throw too much at the audience at once. I think we needed the slower build of Echo retaining bits of her various imprints before throwing the big stuff at us. You have to show us how the Dollhouse works and why it's successful before you start showing us the cracks. (Which, incidentally, is something I don't think was totally fixed. I think that was a flaw of the world-building, that I was never really convinced of the logic that would result in the Dollhouse.)

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Either that, or it really was Joss' best effort and they just suck.

I get the feeling it's more this. I followed the coverage pretty religiously when Dollhouse was gearing up and Whedon sounded very conflicted, frustrated and confused during that time. I think he understood what FOX wanted, he understood what he wanted, but he didn't know how to make the two work.

I have a hard time being objective about the pilot because I watched it after I was well-versed in how the Dollhouse worked. But the pilot did have a bunch of instances where Echo went from multiple different scenarios of imprints all back to back to show the differences, then showed her in her doll state. So I think it did a fairly good job of displaying the parameters and possibilities.

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But the pilot did have a bunch of instances where Echo went from multiple different scenarios of imprints all back to back to show the differences, then showed her in her doll state. So I think it did a fairly good job of displaying the parameters and possibilities.

I wasn't just talking about the imprints. Honestly, I figured that much out from the publicity. I meant the more general world-building, which I felt was somewhat slipshod even in the final version.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

This is a brilliant post. You've nailed why Dollhouse faltered. And seriously, the blindingly fast speed that over focused on plot and forgot character? HELLO JOSS WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING. He began to care so much about the story he wanted to tell (all FIVE YEARS) that he jettisoned all his skills that make his stories WORTH telling.

I think Epitaph One is to blame. Because it showed him how he could jump to the future and be brilliant. And it made him think 'it worked here, so why not give it a shot?' No. Just No. And because Epitaph One was so grim, he needed Epitaph Two to bring it all around, but he had to take the series to a final point in order to make Epitaph Two's happy ending make sense. And thus, Failure.

Also, care to ramble about Gilmore Girls and why it disappointed you? I have a few guesses, but I watched that show during a time in my life when I was less critical, so the fact that Lorelai was still there was enough for me. (I'm guessing it's the decision to make Rory a selfish snob, to break up Lorelai and Rory for like an entire year, Logan exists, etc., Luke has a niece in order to mess up his relationship with Lorelai because introducing an adult woman would be cliche)

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I think Epitaph One is to blame. Because it showed him how he could jump to the future and be brilliant. And it made him think 'it worked here, so why not give it a shot?' No. Just No. And because Epitaph One was so grim, he needed Epitaph Two to bring it all around, but he had to take the series to a final point in order to make Epitaph Two's happy ending make sense. And thus, Failure.

Hmmm, perhaps. It definitely tied his hands in how to end the series. I really enjoyed "Epitaph Two," but I felt like the apocalyptic scenario set up in "Epitaph One" forced the whole evil corporate conspiracy in the first place, because he had to show us how they ended up there, and didn't have the time to explore the more subtle ways that technology could have an insidious effect on our society. So he went for broad cliches and big explosions instead.

Also, care to ramble about Gilmore Girls and why it disappointed you?

I talked about it in the comments of one of my previous posts, I think, but basically I hung on until Luke's daughter showed up. I hated it when Luke and Lorelai started breaking up every ten minutes. I never really wanted them together in the first place (in fact, it took me a lot longer than it should have to notice that they were trying to create sexual tension), so all their relationship drama really annoyed me.

I actually didn't mind Logan, but what bothered me about Rory is that she used to be someone I could actually relate to, and then she turned into this person with a dramatic soap opera-esque life that was completely unrealistic (okay, Stars Hollow was never realistic, but Rory's problems with school and boys and family were). But Luke's mini-Rory daughter was really the last straw.

[mikeda.livejournal.com]

started breaking up every ten minutes

?

They broke up exactly twice. Once in the middle of S5 and once at the end of S6.

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Maybe they weren't offical break-ups, but they sure did fight a lot, and the bickering was unbearably annoying.

[dragonflylady77.livejournal.com]

*is in awe of your brain and how it works and makes you write insightful stuff like that*

I've seen the first 4 episodes of Dollhouse but I've heard a lot. I'm still going to watch to the end of Season 1 cos I wanna see Alan Tudyk.

[next_to_normal]

Hee! Aww, thanks.

[snickfic]

Yes to all of this. Particularly to the brilliant supporting cast part and to the point where it all went to hell. The show was painfully inconsistent all the way through in terms of pacing and themes and such, but those last six episodes defy expression. Ugh. The pacing is awful, but even worse is the complete abandonment of the whole fantasy-subversion, we're-all-bad-guys focus.

In most shows, I wouldn't mind that change in focus so much, but most shows aren't nearly so pretentiously unpleasant in their social criticism, either. From "Man on the Street," at the very latest, this show reeked of Big Ideas, and the viewer discomfort apparently necessary for conveying them. Whedon regularly sacrificed entertainment value, plot sense-making, and character progression on the alter of Saying Something, and then threw it all over for no reason I can see.

Yeesh, that all sounds more bitter than I thought I was...

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In most shows, I wouldn't mind that change in focus so much, but most shows aren't nearly so pretentiously unpleasant in their social criticism, either. From "Man on the Street," at the very latest, this show reeked of Big Ideas, and the viewer discomfort apparently necessary for conveying them. Whedon regularly sacrificed entertainment value, plot sense-making, and character progression on the alter of Saying Something, and then threw it all over for no reason I can see.

EXACTLY.

[silverusagi]

I honestly don't think Joss could've done more to emphasize his weaknesses and completely ignore his strengths if he'd deliberately tried.

This. And I'm also sick of the "slow to get started" thing. That's not a good trait to have in the fast paced world of today's TV. A show can build up without being awful in the beginning.

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Exactly! I don't mind putting in the effort if I'm assured it's worth it (like my friends telling me to suffer through BtVS season 1), but I watch a lot of TV already, and there's even more that I would watch if I had the time, so I'm not going to waste my time watching an entire season of something that sucks, just because it might get better.

[mikeda.livejournal.com]

I actually don't agree that Joss shows are "slow to get started". I think all four of his shows started at a high level of quality and stayed there.

[next_to_normal]

Ohhh, I very much disagree. I'd say the only one that started at a high level of quality was Angel, and I don't think it's a coincidence that it's the only show that was a spin-off and thus all the world-building and character-establishing was already done.

Season 1 of BtVS is, IMO, way below the quality of the rest of the series. I'm not sure I'd have even kept watching if not for my friends promising me that it got so much better.

Same with Dollhouse. The first five episodes were pretty mediocre. If not for all the hype about the mythical episode six, I probably would not have stuck it out until the show got good.

I don't like Firefly at all, so I can't call it high quality. It certainly could have gotten better, but we'll never know, and based on what we saw, I was not at all impressed.

[mikeda.livejournal.com]

*shrugs*

I thought S1 of BtVS is about equal in quality with the other seasons.

Tastes differ.