Ah, I see what you're saying. And I agree that if it's only being used to disagree while avoiding confrontation, it's not particularly useful (or very nice, lol).
I don't know that I'd say citation is never useful, though. I think it can be helpful in certain circumstances, particularly when the topic is more subjective - if, for instance, the issue had been what constitutes slut-shaming (which doesn't have a universally agreed-upon definition), rather than the simple "do people do it" question, an example would illustrate that person's definition - and if you disagree with the definition, then you know what you're in for.
It also probably depends on how receptive the other person is. If they're willing to consider your side, an example might help them understand your point. (It's why we always do example problems in math class, because the theory sometimes doesn't make sense until it's applied.) If they're firmly entrenched in their opinion, then all the examples in the world won't help.
I think, if you don't agree on how fandom's generally thinking and want to have a discussion that depends on that, your options are to either agree to accept one situation as hypothetically true, and then discuss the finer points of the argument that was being built off from that (a sort of 'I don't agree about X, but anyway...' response), or walk away
Word. I think a lot of frustration comes from a disagreement over the premise of the argument, so that you can't even get to the substance of the argument without fighting that battle first (and it's a battle you're very unlikely to win).
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carisma_sensei
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Date: Jan. 7th, 2011 12:08 am (UTC)I don't know that I'd say citation is never useful, though. I think it can be helpful in certain circumstances, particularly when the topic is more subjective - if, for instance, the issue had been what constitutes slut-shaming (which doesn't have a universally agreed-upon definition), rather than the simple "do people do it" question, an example would illustrate that person's definition - and if you disagree with the definition, then you know what you're in for.
It also probably depends on how receptive the other person is. If they're willing to consider your side, an example might help them understand your point. (It's why we always do example problems in math class, because the theory sometimes doesn't make sense until it's applied.) If they're firmly entrenched in their opinion, then all the examples in the world won't help.
I think, if you don't agree on how fandom's generally thinking and want to have a discussion that depends on that, your options are to either agree to accept one situation as hypothetically true, and then discuss the finer points of the argument that was being built off from that (a sort of 'I don't agree about X, but anyway...' response), or walk away
Word. I think a lot of frustration comes from a disagreement over the premise of the argument, so that you can't even get to the substance of the argument without fighting that battle first (and it's a battle you're very unlikely to win).