You know, I think the counterargument of "it wasn't funny" is just saying the exact same thing. Because what does it take to be funny? It takes the proper set up of tone, timing and context (knowing the mythology so well that you can make jokes about it: "Dawn's in trouble. Must be Tuesday." or Xander: "...go for the eyes. Everything's got eyes."/Dawn: "Except the Bringers.")
But throughout Season 8, there hasn't been a single climax for a story arc that fubar'd the tone so completely. WatG had the satire funny of Mecha Dawn and the Willow & Buffy talk a lot while Satsu falls to her death, but it was also extremely dark in tone as well. The balance of tone is what makes the funny still funny and the dark still dark. When Dracula is all in shadow and says "fear the old man" it's awesome, when Xander beheads Toru, again awesome. And DARK and serious. Just as Renee's death is treated seriously.
That's the difference. There's knowing when to tell a joke. Batman & Robin doesn't know when to tell a joke, or how or probably why, so the whole thing becomes a laughable joke. Same thing with Twilight. Over the top worldending space frakking, the world being blown to bits, and at the literal moment of climax, Buffy and Angel are fucking in space with a dialogue bubble that pokes fun at there being no sound in space? It's a bad joke that destroys the drama.
It destroys the balance and turns the entire thing into a joke. Just as all of Batman & Robin turns into a joke because the balance is off.
Being funny is about timing and tone. So yeah, again I think we're talking about the same things. And Batman & Robin is still a relevant example.
But I also agree with Eowyn about this:And I didn't even bother to see the 90s movies because they looked ridiculous. It wasn't until Batman Begins that I went, "OH. Now I get why everyone loves Batman so much." Batman never became a huge storytelling deal until it took itself seriously (and I mean more huge deal in box office bang for popularity and critical acclaim as ways to measure it). Even the 90's movies don't stand up to The Dark Knight imo. But at least the 90's movies had a better balance of funny and darkness. And that's the thing about Buffy--it blends the comedy and drama, so that they're two distinct flavors. That's why BtVS was so great--the flavors didn't get lost or overpowered. This is true of WatG, I think. However, in Twilight, it gets lost and becomes overpowered by the wrong timing, pace and poorly chosen jokes. When does the drama get to breathe if it never gets its own moment? If we go by Meltzer's example, maybe Goddard should've thrown in more jokes during Renee's death scene and really hammed it up.
Anyways, I see "the problem is that the movie wasn't funny" as a just a lead up to "why wasn't it funny?" Because Teh Funny is an art form, just like Teh Drama. Meltzer didn't know how to do either all that well, but he put too much emphasis on Teh Funny starting with Issue 32 when he geekgasmed over Comics References Jokes instead of Buffyverse Jokes, and the geekgasming kept on coming and coming and coming. ;-)
I think we're talking about the same thing, but using different terminology like it somehow makes our two points different... which it doesn't really.
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carisma_sensei
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Date: Jul. 14th, 2010 01:46 pm (UTC)But throughout Season 8, there hasn't been a single climax for a story arc that fubar'd the tone so completely. WatG had the satire funny of Mecha Dawn and the Willow & Buffy talk a lot while Satsu falls to her death, but it was also extremely dark in tone as well. The balance of tone is what makes the funny still funny and the dark still dark. When Dracula is all in shadow and says "fear the old man" it's awesome, when Xander beheads Toru, again awesome. And DARK and serious. Just as Renee's death is treated seriously.
That's the difference. There's knowing when to tell a joke. Batman & Robin doesn't know when to tell a joke, or how or probably why, so the whole thing becomes a laughable joke. Same thing with Twilight. Over the top worldending space frakking, the world being blown to bits, and at the literal moment of climax, Buffy and Angel are fucking in space with a dialogue bubble that pokes fun at there being no sound in space? It's a bad joke that destroys the drama.
It destroys the balance and turns the entire thing into a joke. Just as all of Batman & Robin turns into a joke because the balance is off.
Being funny is about timing and tone. So yeah, again I think we're talking about the same things. And Batman & Robin is still a relevant example.
But I also agree with Eowyn about this:And I didn't even bother to see the 90s movies because they looked ridiculous. It wasn't until Batman Begins that I went, "OH. Now I get why everyone loves Batman so much." Batman never became a huge storytelling deal until it took itself seriously (and I mean more huge deal in box office bang for popularity and critical acclaim as ways to measure it). Even the 90's movies don't stand up to The Dark Knight imo. But at least the 90's movies had a better balance of funny and darkness. And that's the thing about Buffy--it blends the comedy and drama, so that they're two distinct flavors. That's why BtVS was so great--the flavors didn't get lost or overpowered. This is true of WatG, I think. However, in Twilight, it gets lost and becomes overpowered by the wrong timing, pace and poorly chosen jokes. When does the drama get to breathe if it never gets its own moment? If we go by Meltzer's example, maybe Goddard should've thrown in more jokes during Renee's death scene and really hammed it up.
Anyways, I see "the problem is that the movie wasn't funny" as a just a lead up to "why wasn't it funny?" Because Teh Funny is an art form, just like Teh Drama. Meltzer didn't know how to do either all that well, but he put too much emphasis on Teh Funny starting with Issue 32 when he geekgasmed over Comics References Jokes instead of Buffyverse Jokes, and the geekgasming kept on coming and coming and coming. ;-)
I think we're talking about the same thing, but using different terminology like it somehow makes our two points different... which it doesn't really.