Romance =/= Geometry

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You may have noticed that there's a poll up about the best TV love triangle. This baffles me, for several reasons.

First of all, it's a complete oxymoron to me, since I hate love triangles as a general rule, so "best" doesn't really enter the picture. I absolutely despise when shows derive their drama from all the back-and-forthing and "who will he/she choose??" Especially high school love triangles, because they're always so absurdly melodramatic and unrealistic.

I usually end up having one of three reactions when a love triangle is introduced:

1. "Obviously these two should be together, and the third wheel should take a long walk off a short pier." See: Logan/Veronica/Duncan, Pacey/Joey/Dawson.

2. "I hate every possible outcome and I want all three of them to knock it the fuck off and move on." See: Buffy/Xander/Willow, Amy/Josh/Donna.

3. "Actually, it's more of a foursome, and two of them should've just kept their damn hands off each other and not ruined their existing relationships." See: Sam/Kara/Lee/Dualla, Oz/Willow/Xander/Cordelia.

So, yeah, overall, I'm not feeling the "bestness" of the love triangle poll. But there's a particular reason this one aggravates me.

Buffy/Angel/Spike is WINNING. By a ridiculous margin.

That may come as a surprise to those who know me, given that my favorite show, my favorite character, and my favorite pairing are all to be found somewhere in there. But bear with me on this...

See, I'm over here thinking, "Seriously, people, what fucking show were you watching?" Because the thing I loved most about Buffy and her vampires is that there was none of that shit happening on the show. Buffy and Angel had their time, and then it ended. Buffy and Spike had their time, and then it ended, and except for a bizarre OOC appearance by Angel in "Chosen," it NEVER OVERLAPPED. There was never any back-and-forth about which vampire Buffy should be with (on the show at least, fandom is a whole different, absurd story, which, given the disgusting level of hatred there, ought to earn them WORST TV love triangle), because there was never more than one choice at a time. And even in Angel season 5, when Angel and Spike are fighting - sometimes literally - over Buffy, the thing that made it tolerable is that Buffy's not there. Maybe if she was there, it'd be a difficult choice for her, or maybe it wouldn't, but either way, the show never goes there. It subverts the entire idea of the triangle, because while Angel and Spike are jockeying to be the one Buffy chooses, there is no choice, because Buffy's not there to make it.

So yeah, I am completely boggling that people find that to be the best love triangle, when I see it as the ANTI-love triangle.

If you're wondering, I picked Damon/Stefan/Elena for the poll, because that is one triangle where I really enjoy the dynamic of Damon interfering in Stefan and Elena's relationship. As I mentioned in my TVD post, Damon makes everything more interesting. Without him, Stefan and Elena are BORING, but I also don't just want Damon and Elena together and Stefan out of the picture. It's the love/hate thing that Damon/Elena and Damon/Stefan have going on that makes them interesting, and that goes away if Elena decides she loves Damon enough to be with him instead of Stefan, and if Stefan doesn't care. I also wouldn't mind a straight-up threesome, lol, but I'm sure the show would never go there, as much as it flirts with the idea.

Comments

[rogin]

I agree, I'm not a big fan of love triangles unless they really are triangles, which I think might be what might be attractive about the Stefan/Elena/Damon thing, because Damon and Stefan have their sibling thing going.

Fanonwise and also in S5 I think it's similar with Spike/Angel/Buffy. I loathe what they are doing in the comics and what they did in Chosen. The wole Dawson's creek routine of "who will she chose" is just annoying and zero interesting. But Spike/Buffy/Angel could have a great threesome dynamic, because Spike and Angel totally go together on their own. There are only glimpses of that on the show (say Lover's walk) and unfortunately they are completely killing anything good about the dynamic in the comics now, but it had a lot of potential.

[next_to_normal]

Heh, I dunno. I've never been convinced by a Spike/Buffy/Angel threesome. I mean, the dynamic would be fascinating, sure, but I think they're all too insecure and too competitive to ever pull it off successfully. There are too many issues involved; they're always going perceive some imbalance in the triangle, each one feeling like they're the unwanted third wheel (kind of like this).

And yeah, I have nothing to say about the comics. They don't exist.

[rogin]

I think their insecurities could make it interesting though. It would keep the sizzle in the threesome alive indefinitely. It would always be a relationship that has to overcome obstacles, that would never be simple or easy. To me it would be needed though to write Angel an Spike as being in love with each other too, else the whole competing for Buffy thing would take over.

[next_to_normal]

Well, yes, it would certainly make it interesting, but I don't think it's realistic that they'd be able to last very long. I think the insecurities would take over and tear them apart (even if Spike and Angel were in love with each other, too).

[goldenusagi]

it NEVER OVERLAPPED

EXACTLY. There was no love triangle on the show with Buffy and Spike and Angel. I made a rant about that a while back.

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It's like people want to see love triangles when they're NOT EVEN THERE!! WHY? Why would you want to do that?

[goldenusagi]

People are confusing fandom with the show...

[snickfic]

I loathe love triangles. Loathe them. The idea of there being a good one pretty much boggles my mind.

[snickfic]

OTOH, it seems to me as a math person it is my duty to point out the romance of geometry. I'm sure xkcd must have something...

[next_to_normal]

How's this for you? lol

[snickfic]

Hah! That is fabulous.

[next_to_normal]

I know! Me too! It actually took me a long time to watch Vampire Diaries, knowing that it was a vampire love triangle. Most of the time, I just want the triangle to GO AWAY!

[maggie2]

Hi!

Fantastic post. The gap between fandom and the show is really quite impressive.

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Hi! And thanks. I never cease to be amazed at how far fandom can be from reality. :)

[rahirah]

I hate triangles with the passion of a thousand burning suns.

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Hee! You are not alone...

[calturner]

I'm with you on this - I usually loathe love triangles, but enjoy the dynamic between Stefen/Elena/Damon. Damon helps shake things up, which is exactly what Stefan/Elena need to make them even remotely interesting as a couple.

[next_to_normal]

Exactly! *loves Damon*

[gingerwall.livejournal.com]

Haha. I love your different categories of threesomes, and totally agree as far as Spike/Buffy/Angel is concerned.

[next_to_normal]

Heh, thanks!

[rebcake]

Maybe Buffy/Angel/Spike is winning because it's the anti-threesome! Maybe that's what people like about it. If the comics would just stop ruining things, that would have been my choice.

[next_to_normal]

Hmmm, I don't know. I think the perception (which the comics certainly haven't helped) is that they are a real threesome just like any of the other choices. I mean, think about any time an article is written comparing Spike and Angel - they always play up the "two vampires vying for Buffy's love" angle. People seem to totally forget that they were never with Buffy at the same time.

[lirazel]

Yeah, I'm with you on all the different categories, completely, and also on the good thing about Buffy and her vamps. NOT A LOVE TRIANGLE.

I do think it's so interesting that we all agree that Stefan/Elena/Damon is fun and works; I feel like meta needs to be written about this....

[next_to_normal]

Haha, it's weird, isn't it? I think maybe it has to do with the fact that it's never really presented as a choice. There's no back and forth on Elena's part - she loves Stefan, and she's been very clear and unwavering on that front. Damon may be in love with her, but he's having as much luck as Spike in season 5, lol, and so it's just fun to watch him throw a wrench in the works occasionally, because he plays so well off both of them. But Elena's never angsting over which vampire to choose, which is the most annoying part of the love triangle - the indecision!

I also appreciate that it's not presented as a competition. It's not like Elena's merely a prize to be won (*cough* Fred - or Buffy in AtS s5). She's a real human being, and in fact, she's the one person that makes Damon act like a real human being, instead of an asshole. So it's not like I'm rooting for Damon to win because he's sooo much better than Stefan (although I do like Damon better). It's more that I like who Damon is when he's around Elena.

And although I could see her breaking up with Stefan and then ending up with Damon eventually, I think it would be more like Buffy/Angel/Spike, where things just end naturally and she moves on, not some angsty, endless "omg who do I choooose" thing.

(If I were going to make it happen, Elena and Stefan would break up because of something that happens with Katherine, and has nothing to do with Damon. Then Elena and Damon gradually start getting closer again and maybe start dating the next season, so that she doesn't go right from one to the other.)

Um... I may have accidentally written that meta, lol!

[shapinglight]

Not keen on love triangles either (though I enjoy True Blood enough to not care about the Sookie/Bill/Eric one and happily carry on watching), and I definitely agree about S/B/A.

I enjoy the idea of a threesome in theory (could be hot, could be interesting, could be very funny indeed), but hate the necessity of any kind of triangle dynamic it would involve. And agree that, apart from that one little moment in Chosen, which was blatant Bangel fanservice, it never existed in the show, and the final word on it can be found in AtS season 5, TGiQ, where Andrew makes it plain to Spike and Angel that there is no triangle, except in their fevered imaginations because Buffy has moved on, and they should do likewise or continue to look like immature idiots.

In other words, both 'ships 'lost' because there was never any real competition in the first place.

Of course, the comics have ruined all that, as they've ruined so much else, by basically saying that yes, there was a competition and Spike lost it somewhere offscreen where we didn't see. Or possibly was never in with a chance anyway.

[next_to_normal]

Yeah, the thing about threesomes is that it's nearly impossible to have three equal relationships. Especially with three people as insecure as Buffy, Angel, and Spike, lol. Someone's always going to feel slighted or jealous of the other two.

I agree with you on the way it was left in BtVS/AtS without a winner. It was vague enough that you could imagine Buffy coming back and still being in love with one or both of them, but at the same time, things felt settled. (And in my happy denial place, they still are! lol)

[shadowkat]

Agreed. Vampire Diaries (and possibly True Blood) are the two situations in which the love triangel is necessary to keep the romance interesting. I admittedly don't care who Elena ends up with, not invested in the character at all.
But, the tension between the three is interesting, partly because Damon and Stefan are brothers, more than that - they are close brothers who have known one another for more than 160 years and can't live without the other. Stefan
made sure Damon also became a vampire, when he could just have died - because he didn't want to be alone. There's a heavy bro-romance going on in the center of that triangel.

Btvs/ATS sort of had a similar sitch - when all three are onscreen together. Angel and Spike clearly have a close relationship that exists outside of and in spite of Buffy.
They'd have it regardless of her existence. Unlike VD, Buffy's existence doesn't make their relationship more interesting. The show never really played the love triangle aspect - except to the degree that each character occassionally moped over the past love that was no longer there. Spike moped over Dru. Buffy moped over Angel, then Riley. Angel moped over Buffy then Cordy. A lot of moping, but not really any true rivalry. Heck even when Angel pops up in End of Days - he doesn't share the screen with Spike.
Spike is seen lurking in the background and abruptly leaves without confronting them or getting into it with Angel.
There's no confrontation scene. We never see Buffy "choose" or even worry about choosing. She more or less tells Angel I love you and I love him, now go.

[I'm ignoring the comics in this bit.]

So agreed - the only triangel is the one that exists in fandom, not in reality...Buffy moved on from Angel, then she moved on from Spike. End of story.

[next_to_normal]

Yeah, the bromance is definitely an important part of the triangle. And the thing about Stefan and Damon is that they've sort of already done the triangle thing with Katherine - and it ended with Damon choosing Katherine, Katherine choosing Stefan, and Stefan choosing... Damon. Heh. And now the repercussions of that are playing out with Elena.

BtVS sort of did that with Drusilla, but the dynamics were very different. And although they had a similarly long history, Angel and Spike were never really in the position of choosing between the other and Buffy, not the way Stefan has. And that wrinkle makes it way more complicated than the typical love triangle "who will he/she choose?"

[mikeda.livejournal.com]

ignoring the comics

I don't think you need to. Nothing has happened in the comics that really changes the basic dynamic of Buffy's relationships with Angel and Spike.

Unless that dreamscape in the first arc is supposed to be one of Buffy's prophetic dreams. :-)

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Oh, it certainly has. The comics have, if nothing else, made the triangle painfully explicit. That was my whole point - a triangle was impossible because Buffy's relationships with Angel and Spike never existed at the same time. Now we've got both of them - the Bangel is explicit (literally, with an NC-17 rating), and the Spuffy, while only in Buffy's imagination for the moment, is hardly to be ignored. Fandom wouldn't be so up in arms about the whole thing if it didn't change the relationship dynamics.

It remains to be seen whether Buffy has or will make a choice, but I think both Angel and Spike are positioned as competitors in a way they never were on the show.

[(Anonymous)]

I totally agree about A/B/S... but I did love me some Brenda/Dylan/Kelly action. Hey, I was in junior high at the time! It sucked me in. I still love that triangle.

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Heh. I never got into 90210.