Male Feminists?

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So, the other day, gabrielleabelle made a post questioning the labeling of Angel as a feminist icon. The general consensus, not surprisingly, is that Angel is NOT the feminist icon we are looking for. But it did make me wonder - are there ANY male feminist icons in popular culture? I can't think of any.

Okay. "Icon" is a pretty high bar. How about just a portrayal of a male feminist character? Any medium. How many can you think of?

I'm also including gingerwall's list of criteria from the same post, just for reference. Your criteria may be different (I expect the third one is particularly difficult to find in pop culture, which might eliminate everybody, lol), but I thought it might be helpful for people who want guidelines.

Here would be my qualifications for the Best Male Feminist Role Model in All of Everything Ever:
- Let the women in his life be autonomous agents and make their own decisions.
- Listen to and carefully consider what women have to say about issues that affect both of them.
- Be aware of how organizations that he is a part of contribute to the oppression of the women in his life and work to change or protest those cultures, all the while getting feedback from those women to make sure he is accurately reflecting their lived experience.
- Encourage the women in his life to defy traditional gender roles and take on powerful positions, even at the expense of his own control and power.

Comments

[gingerwall.livejournal.com]

Hah! I was thinking of doing a post like this also, but you beat me to it. Also I think you have more friends, and most of mine are a subset of yours. So thanks. :)

[diebirchen.livejournal.com]

How about . . . and take a fair share of all the household work, not divided on the basis of gender or his preferences? It's a biggy!!!

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LOL! Glad to be of service.

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Heh. Like I said, use whatever criteria you want. I'm curious if people will come up with many characters.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Uuuuhh... *thinks*

Season 7 Xander. He definitely qualifies for #1, #2, and #4. And I think in the Buffyverse context where oppression of women is about fighting the First Evil, he's following Buffy's lead in protesting this and fighting it.

For the life of me, I'm having trouble thinking of any other male character who fits this.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

So how about Giles, then? It's complicated by the fact that he was in a quasi-parental role to Buffy in the early seasons, but still:

1) Definitely. In fact he's been harshly criticised for leaving Buffy to make her own decisions in s6! He was also supportive of Faith in s7 when she became leader.
2) Without doubt.
3) Ditto,at least after 'Helpless'.
4) It's practically the definition of his role in the show.

The problem with any of these discussions is how high do you set the bar. Unless a character is portrayed as some kind of sinless saint and paragon of virtue - which I suspect would be intensely irritating to watch - they're not going to be perfect all the time. So however feminist they usually act, someone will always be able to point to them and say "Aha! What about when they did such-and-such in episode blah-di-blah? Not very feminist there, were they? So much for your so-called icon!"

[blackfrancine.livejournal.com]

Ha! It took me a while, but I've got 2.
1. Lloyd Dobbler (John Cusack) in Say Anything. He is 100% willing to put Diane's ambitions before any of his own. Also, even when heartbroken, he refused to stoop to misogynist behavior like name calling and revenge fucking (though his male friends were encouraging him to do so). While they were together, he respected Diane's opinions about things that they differed on--and tried things out with an open mind. And when they broke up, though he sought her out several times, it never really crossed over into creepy behavior, and he did eventually stop contacting her altogether. He also supported the other women in his life: his sister and his two best friends--encouraging them away from behavior that was leading them to be emotionally dependent on men.

2. Schmendrick the Magician from The Last Unicorn. He respects Amalthea/the unicorn--allows her to defend herself even when she seems really vulnerable/scared. He encourages her to do what's best for her in the long run (ie becoming a unicorn again) even though it subverts the standard heteronormative paradigm (ie she has to walk away from a relationship with Prince Lear).

That's all I got.

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I could see that. Which is interesting, because I'd probably classify him as pretty sexist earlier on. Yay for maturity!

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Well, that's why I qualified it by asking for any male feminist character, not necessarily an icon. With that sort of standard, I'd say we should expect the same from a fictional character as we'd expect of ourselves, and none of us are perfect, either.

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Heh, I have no memory of Say Anything, but SCHMENDRICK! Yay! *has a total obsession with The Last Unicorn*

[angearia.livejournal.com]

- Let the women in his life be autonomous agents and make their own decisions.

It's not so much that Giles lets Buffy be an autonomous agent. Buffy refuses to heed his will, as he tries again and again to rein her in. Eventually, he gives up and realizes he can't stop her from being an autonomous agent. Then he regresses in S7 LMPTM.

I think for the most part he fits the male feminist model we're discussing, but only after he's been broken of his bad habits in vehemently trying to go against what the model stands for.

[blackfrancine.livejournal.com]

Wait. I thought of another.

3. Johnny Castle (Patrick Swayze) from Dirty Dancing. This may be controversial. But whatever. He was attracted to Baby because she was self possessed, and she wanted to do important things. He encouraged her to not be squashed into a box (or a corner)--pulling her out to allow her to show off all of her abilities to the world--doing so meant he wouldn't get his bonus check. So, he personally took a financial loss (and probably lost any employer recommendations) in order to help empower Baby. In addition, he supported Penny emotionally, never slut shaming her, and supporting her right to choose what to do with her own body (despite what the law allowed).

Anyway, his firm anit-slut-shaming, pro-choice, and pro-strong women stances are enough for me to consider him a feminist icon.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I totally have The Last Unicorn on DVD!

[scarlett2u.livejournal.com]

Good call on Lloyd Dobler. I totally agree with your assessment on that. Remember the part where Lili Taylor's character says something to the effect of, "Every girl needs a LLoyd Dobler"? So true!

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Oooh, yeah, I like including Johnny!

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Yep, LMPTP was the first thing I thought of when stormwreath suggested Giles. :) Although, in fairness, I think it's difficult to tell whether Giles tries to make decisions for Buffy because she's a woman or because she's his "child." It's probably more telling to look at how he treats other women (particularly ones his own age, like Jenny, Olivia, and Joyce).

[pocochina.livejournal.com]

This is such a distressing topic to me, because i can hardly think of any male feminists in the media. There are a few that I think come close, (http://pocochina.livejournal.com/122359.html) but not many, unfortunately.

There are a lot of characters who come close, and should be characterized that way, but the sexist toolishness of the writer just seeps through and makes them...not. Sam Seaborn, for example.

[blackfrancine.livejournal.com]

I also forgot to point out that in The Last Unicorn (which is the best movie EVER, btw) Schmendrick is encouraging Amalthea/the unicorn to essentially leave him behind. So, he is personally losing someone that brings him joy, but he's encouraging her to leave because it's A)better for her, and B) because she's going to LIBERATE ALL THE UNICORNS! She's literally changing the world. Yay! Unicorns FTW.

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

I love you forever for mentioning Schmendrick. Any mention of Schmendrick is worth eternal love, but Schmendrick as feminist icon? Is awesomeness personified. And I will compare his relationship with Amalthea to that of Buffy and Xander, just to add some relevance, though if Amalthea fell in love with a formerly evil vampire who fought and won his soul for her, I don't think Schmendrick would do as much snarky, flailing.

Schmendrick is actually Willow and Xander combined, isn't he?

*is totally now overthinking The Last Unicorn*

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OMG!!! CAN I COME OVER AND WATCH??

LOL, I rented it once in college... it wasn't quite as awesome as I'd remembered (the singing is kind of, um, off-key sometimes?), but I was still giddy over it.

[pocochina.livejournal.com]

Agreed. I think becoming a feminist is a big part of Xander's later-season character development. He learns from his S6 mistakes to become more respectful and supportive.

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Dude, she is like the Buffy of unicorns!!!!

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Haha, another movie I haven't seen (I KNOW).

[pocochina.livejournal.com]

I would never have thought of him, but you're absolutely right. It's a very specific working-class feminism too, which you don't see very much, and I like that.

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if Amalthea fell in love with a formerly evil vampire who fought and won his soul for her, I don't think Schmendrick would do as much snarky, flailing.

ROFL I love this comment!