S7 Spuffy pondering

[next_to_normal]

Yesterday, snickfic made a post on the things she doesn't like about Spike in S7. I'll just copy the relevant point here:

The non-discussion of the AR. It is the huge purple elephant in the room in S7, rarely referred to but entirely overshadowing Spike and Buffy's relationship. I wish they'd actually talked it out sometime, even if we didn't see much of the discussion on screen. Just a hint that this was something that they were working through and moving on from would have been helpful.

In the comments, angearia asked a very good question, which is: "What discussion of the AR would be satisfying? What needs to be said to make it work?"

And so I'm curious. I've seen plenty of people express displeasure with the way the AR (or even the entire S6 Spuffy relationship in general) was brushed aside in S7, but I don't know that I've ever seen anyone answer Emmie's question of what would make it better. (This may or may not be relevant to a fic idea I'm working on, but I ask more out of curiosity than anything else, as one who doesn't have a problem with what we were given.)

It seems like a difficult question to answer, since there's no real life equivalent to going and getting a soul, but are there expectations that Spike - or Buffy, for that matter - need to meet to make it "okay" for them to pursue a relationship again? Are verbal apologies and forgiveness necessary, or do actions speak louder than words? What is it that people find lacking about the way it was addressed on the show?

Comments

[shapinglight]

perhaps as a result of seeing too many "Buffy deserved it; it was her own fault" arguments

I must admit, I haven't seen many of those and didn't back in the day. I've mostly heard that view being touted as what Spike fans believe by those fans who really loathe him and wanted to paint the Spike fans as Buffy-hating rapist lovers. However, I'm willing to accept I may have missed it being said by people who really should know better.

Thing is, it isn't a typical rape scenario. Not at all. Having said which, right from the moment I heard the spoilers about it, let alone saw the scene with my own eyes, I knew that this was absolutely the worst thing the writers could have done to Spike in terms of character assassination. Far worse than what they did to Angel in season 2 (even though I of course subscribe to the same view as Gabrielleabelle that rape is not worse than murder) simply because rape is still such a contentious issue, and because until the crime is taken as seriously as it should be, it's very, very difficult to attempt to explain that there can ever be mitigating circumstances, even in fiction.

I nearly left the fandom the day the episode aired. I was heartbroken, I don't mind admitting, because I knew then, as I know now, that in such a scenario you always have to take the side of the victim, and yet the assailant was my favourite character. It took me a long time to get over it.

I forgave Spike pretty quickly once Joss, Fury et al began stating very emphatically that Spike had gone to get a soul on purpose (because that's far from clear, sadly, due to ME's failure to tell James what his character's motivation was)because I was then able to tell myself that he was remorseful. However, I never forgave him by transferring the blame to Buffy, and I don't think I could have handled it if he had ever forgiven himself.

That's the main reason why I'm happy with the Spike/Buffy interaction in season 7 and wouldn't want it changed. People complain that he was subdued, or a woobie (hate that word) or whatever. In my eyes, there was no other way for him to be.

Sorry. Ranting a bit, I suppose.

[next_to_normal]

Most of the people I've seen arguing that were on BSV. Although, given the quality of discussion on the forums there these days, I don't know if you could realistically say most of them "really should know better." I can't say I've seen anyone whose opinion I respected saying that.

You know, as much as I agree that it was damaging to the character in terms of fan reaction, I really can't say that it was out of character for Spike. Precisely because of the circumstances, of course, but it almost seems inevitable to me that he would cross the line like that. So, in a way, I can kind of see how the writers ended up there - I honestly can't think of a better way to compel Spike to get a soul - but the utter disregard for the real-world implications disturbs me. Maybe in Gabs' ideal perfect world where rape isn't an issue, you could air a scene like that and not worry about the baggage, but here? Not so much.

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

I can't say I've seen anyone whose opinion I respected saying that.

*snerk*

[shapinglight]

Most of the people I've seen arguing that were on BSV.

Ah. I've never really visited that forum, being only a part time Spuffy 'shipper.

'Character assassination' is probably not quite the right description of what I felt was done to Spike. I knew quite well before this happened that the character was capable of quite appalling things. We all knew it, as we knew it about Angel - in theory. But seeing it on screen is something different, and ME weren't careful with Spike the way they were with Angel. In season 2, they were careful to show Angel killing Jenny in vamp face, and yes, the murder is a horrible thing, but ultimately it's quick and clinical and it's not one of the characters close to the audience. With Spike, they weren't that careful. I felt like they thought him expendable in a way that they didn't consider Angel, because to show the AR on screen in this graphic way was just so damaging.

Ah well. As you say, it's hard to see what else would have galvanised Spike into doing what he did. I just wish they hadn't messed up showing his motivation for his actions.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Don't have much to add to the discussion (am finding it interesting), but just a note that I have seen arguments along the lines of "Buffy deserved it" and other statements that run very close to rape apologism. That's why I've taken such a hard-line stance against the AR, because those arguments make me very uncomfortable.

[shapinglight]

They would make me very uncomfortable too. I think that people who argue themselves into thinking that way just don't want to face up to reality.

Wish that even talking about this didn't mean having to compartmentalise one's brain. It gives me a headache.