Food for thought

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This is something I never noticed from "As You Were," which I only just picked up on while rereading the transcript. Here's Riley's speech to Buffy at the end of the episode (with Buffy's interjections edited out):

"Buffy, none of that means anything. It doesn't touch you. You're still the first woman I ever loved and the strongest woman I've ever known. And I'm not advertising this to the missus, but you're still quite the hottie. [...] So you're not in the greatest place right now. And maybe I made it worse. Wheel never stops turning, Buffy. You're up, you're down... it doesn't change what you are. And you are a hell of a woman."

Sound... familiar?

Here's Spike's speech from "Touched":

"I'm not asking you for anything. When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you. And I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy."

Seems interesting to me that two very different lovers of Buffy's would hit on such similar themes, even use the exact same wording at times. (Particularly when Riley's speech comes in an episode where Spuffy fans love to vilify him.) Don't know what it means, but it sure is interesting, and I've never seen it pointed out before.

Comments

[silverusagi]

Interesting. Who were the writers for the episodes? I wonder if it was intentional that they both said "hell of a woman," or was just one of those things.

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

I've always felt a little ripped off by the Touched scene for exactly this reason. Spike's her last, best hope, and all he can do is repeat what she's already heard from Riley? I'm sure she didn't forget that Riley said it. You always remember that kind of thing from your exes.

It's laziness from the writers, who already were cutting corners everywhere to fit everything in. *sigh* I just wish Spike had been given a real "only Spike" moment there. But I'm biased. More Spike! More!

[electricmonk333.livejournal.com]

I had the same reaction when last I rewatched the series. Riley's speech, however, lacks that je ne sais quoi, I think, partly because Riley doesn't get Buffy like Spike does. When he says those words they come across as just that to me - just words. Ok, perhaps a little more, but still they don't deliver emotionally in the way Spike's words do. Of course, James' delivery might have something to do with it. ;)

Point I am trying so ineloquently to convey is that when Riley made that speech to Buffy, there wasn't as much history to their relationship to deliver the emotional punch.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Hmmm...well, there's obviously some parallels set up between Spike and Riley. In S5, Spike is jealous of what Riley has, as noted in his comment in Into the Woods

To be that close to her and not have her... To be all alone even when you're holding her, feeling her, feeling her beneath you, surrounding you, the scent of -- no, you've got the better deal.

Oddly enough, Spike finds himself in a very similar position with Buffy in S6, and I think he might have adjusted his thinking.

So it is appropriate, in a way, to have Riley return and say that to Buffy a year after he left. Then to have Spike say something similar to her a year after his relationship with her.

Also, both speeches serve similar functions. Buffy's in a dark place and is ready to give up. The speech is something of a pep talk (More romantic than Xander's "you're my hero" speech to her in The Freshman).

I think both speeches also serve to show the effect that Buffy has on these men. That after she's been out of a sexual/romantic relationship with them for a while, they come to the conclusion that she's still "the one". After all, I wonder if Angel might say something similar if given the chance.

[fangfaceandrea.livejournal.com]

really? he says that? cause to me it always sounded like"it doesn't change what you are but... you look like hell woman!"

Kidding aside though, coming from Riley it just lacks real emotion, it sounds like something someone tells you when they don't know what else to tell you. It's an empty reassurance and bye bye.

[rahirah]

When the episode aired, people either loved or hated that speech, and the ones who hated it often said that it just didn't sound like Spike's phrasing - they were trying too hard to parallel Riley's speech. They had Spike echo Riley's "You say the words, but I don't feel it," lines, too, so I think they were deliberately making a parallel between the two of them - both of them end up leaving Buffy, convinced she doesn't/won't love them no matter how much they love her. Of course, Riley leaves her to deal with Glory on her own, and Spike saves the world in leaving, so it's not all parallels.

What it means that they were making that parallel, and what it's supposed to say about Buffy... I don't know.

[powerofthebook.livejournal.com]

I don't see the two as being completely similar - they're saying two different things.

In essence, Riley is telling Buffy that she is a great person in a bad situation. He's also telling her that he's aware that with his great life in comparison to hers, he knows he's making it worse. Frankly, it comes across to me as a rather condescending statement, as in "get your life together."

By comparison, Spike is telling her what she means to him, which is something wonderful. She's wonderful because she tries so hard at what she does, both failing and succeeding, and keeps going.

There's also the consideration of what the situation was, before those two statements. Buffy was explaining her "incredible patheticness" to Riley. And Riley was telling Buffy that her life sucks - in bed with an "idiot," in the color orange, smelling of burgers. After his speech, she responds with an apology for their breakup. Which kind of sucks, in my opinion, given the way he treated her and gave her that ultimatum. And then, wife in tow, Riley leaves. Later on, Buffy dumps Spike.

In "Touched," Buffy has a long self-pitying monologue about her lack of connection with anyone that tries. She then pisses Spike off by telling him that the only reason he chased her and went through the trials he did was because she was unattainable. He answers back with what she really means to him. She responds by asking him to hold her, trying for connection.

Or maybe I'm just biased. Sorry for rambling on for so long!

[shinybaum.livejournal.com]

It's interesting... I'd take it more as exposition now then, rather than a love scene.

[riccadonna.livejournal.com]

The two speeches have a different flavor to me: when Riley says it, it feels to me like he's admitting that Buffy is out of his league, but when Spike says it, he's saying that she's the woman for whom it's worth to take the plunge.