Food for thought

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This is something I never noticed from "As You Were," which I only just picked up on while rereading the transcript. Here's Riley's speech to Buffy at the end of the episode (with Buffy's interjections edited out):

"Buffy, none of that means anything. It doesn't touch you. You're still the first woman I ever loved and the strongest woman I've ever known. And I'm not advertising this to the missus, but you're still quite the hottie. [...] So you're not in the greatest place right now. And maybe I made it worse. Wheel never stops turning, Buffy. You're up, you're down... it doesn't change what you are. And you are a hell of a woman."

Sound... familiar?

Here's Spike's speech from "Touched":

"I'm not asking you for anything. When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you. And I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy."

Seems interesting to me that two very different lovers of Buffy's would hit on such similar themes, even use the exact same wording at times. (Particularly when Riley's speech comes in an episode where Spuffy fans love to vilify him.) Don't know what it means, but it sure is interesting, and I've never seen it pointed out before.

Comments

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Well, there's certainly different contexts, but in both cases, Buffy is getting down on herself - for different reasons, sure, but the bottom line is that she's in need of a morale boost. Spike and Riley both respond by reiterating their love for her (be it present or past), they both admire her strength, they both make an "opposites" reference - best/worst, up/down - to show that Buffy's had her good days and bad days, and she's just at a low point in her life right now, but they know she will overcome this, because she's "a hell of a woman." And in both cases, Buffy takes that advice and does what she needs to do.

Frankly, it comes across to me as a rather condescending statement, as in "get your life together."

Hmmm... I don't see it as condescending. I see it as encouraging - telling her she CAN get her life together, even though she feels like she can't. Buffy's clearly in need of a pep talk (and a swift kick in the pants), and Riley delivers.

Later on, Buffy dumps Spike.

Well - and I say this as a certified Spuffy fan - I don't think that's a bad thing. :P That relationship with Spike was terribly destructive and unhealthy, and I'd rather see them apart than together like that.

ETA: Re: Buffy's apology to Riley - I agree that sucks. I don't think Buffy owes Riley anything, but I don't see it as a response to this speech. I think she's believed she owes Riley an apology ever since she watched his helicopter fly away. Whether she deserved it or not, I think she blamed herself for Riley leaving, and so this was finally the chance to say what she wanted to. I don't think she said it just because of what he said to her.

[powerofthebook.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah, they're both pep talks. And as such, they have their desired effect from two guys who were once involved with her. And the repetition of the phrase "hell of a woman" is hard to ignore. There's even some similarity in the stage direction - Riley reaching out to brush away her hair before leaving her, and Buffy letting him, and Spike reaching out to touch her cheek and Buffy leaning away, and Spike getting down on his haunches to look her in the eyes.

The thing about Riley's is that he prefaced it with all the crappy things about Buffy's life before telling her - "but none of that touches you." She's a great person going through a rough time. Spike, on the other hand, isn't responding to the bad situation that Buffy's in. He's concentrating more on the subject of her being a wonderful person, albeit flawed.

They're both trying to cheer her up in a bad spot, but I think the messages they're conveying are different. They're also coming from two different positions - one, as the guy who's just dropping by and knows very little of what she's been through, and the guy who's been around for most of it, caused some of the problems, and helped solve others.

I do agree with you about the relationship as it stood breaking up - I just wish that Riley's condescending (which I still see it as) speech hadn't been the thing to spur it.

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The thing about Riley's is that he prefaced it with all the crappy things about Buffy's life before telling her - "but none of that touches you."

He tries to avoid it at first - when Buffy brings up her patheticness, he tries to play it off like he doesn't know what she's talking about, but it's the elephant in the room, how horrible things are for her. They both know it's there, so he might as well acknowledge it. She's practically forcing him to, so he basically says, "Okay, yes, I noticed how crappy your life is, but I don't think less of you for it."

Spike, on the other hand, isn't responding to the bad situation that Buffy's in.

He does, at first. He starts out by trying to convince her she was right about Caleb and she should take back her leadership. He tries to convince her that's it's chaos at the house without her. When she shoots down all of his practical arguments (which, granted, aren't terribly convincing), he tries to connect on an emotional level - and that's what works.

And really, I don't think he intended it as a pep talk. Initially, when he first walked in the room, that's what he was doing, but then he just got pissed at what she said and wanted to say his piece, and that inadvertently turned into a better pep talk than his previous deliberate attempts to cheer her up.

So, no, they're not exactly the same. (It would be a bizarre coincidence if they were.) But there are some remarkable similarities, which was why I made the post in the first place - but clearly I see it more because I have a more positive view of Riley's speech than you do. I doubt I'll change your mind about Riley, but my explanation obviously comes from how I see it.