Food for thought

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This is something I never noticed from "As You Were," which I only just picked up on while rereading the transcript. Here's Riley's speech to Buffy at the end of the episode (with Buffy's interjections edited out):

"Buffy, none of that means anything. It doesn't touch you. You're still the first woman I ever loved and the strongest woman I've ever known. And I'm not advertising this to the missus, but you're still quite the hottie. [...] So you're not in the greatest place right now. And maybe I made it worse. Wheel never stops turning, Buffy. You're up, you're down... it doesn't change what you are. And you are a hell of a woman."

Sound... familiar?

Here's Spike's speech from "Touched":

"I'm not asking you for anything. When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you. And I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy."

Seems interesting to me that two very different lovers of Buffy's would hit on such similar themes, even use the exact same wording at times. (Particularly when Riley's speech comes in an episode where Spuffy fans love to vilify him.) Don't know what it means, but it sure is interesting, and I've never seen it pointed out before.

Comments

[rahirah]

When the episode aired, people either loved or hated that speech, and the ones who hated it often said that it just didn't sound like Spike's phrasing - they were trying too hard to parallel Riley's speech. They had Spike echo Riley's "You say the words, but I don't feel it," lines, too, so I think they were deliberately making a parallel between the two of them - both of them end up leaving Buffy, convinced she doesn't/won't love them no matter how much they love her. Of course, Riley leaves her to deal with Glory on her own, and Spike saves the world in leaving, so it's not all parallels.

What it means that they were making that parallel, and what it's supposed to say about Buffy... I don't know.

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When the episode aired, people either loved or hated that speech

Really? Coming into fandom after the fact, I got the impression that Spike/Spuffy fans pretty much universally loved that moment.

I think they were deliberately making a parallel between the two of them - both of them end up leaving Buffy, convinced she doesn't/won't love them no matter how much they love her.

Well, whatever they were trying to say, I think that's a pretty fair assessment of Buffy's character. She'd been hurt, had poured everything she had into her relationship with Angel only to have it blow up in her face, and so she never let anyone get that close again. I'd say maybe we're supposed to see progress in that Buffy seems to let Spike in more than Riley, but a lot of it probably depends on your interpretation of the final episodes and whether you think Buffy loved Spike at the end.

[rahirah]

The haters were in the minority, but definitely there. (A lot of them echoed what was said above - they thought Spike just got a ripoff of a Riley moment.)

In some ways it almost doesn't matter whether Buffy really loves Spike or not at the end - even if she does, she's never able to express it in a way that gets through to him. Or that's how it reads to me, anyhow. I have no confidence that I understand what Joss actually wanted me to think about Buffy, so I can't say if I agree with him or not.

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In some ways it almost doesn't matter whether Buffy really loves Spike or not at the end - even if she does, she's never able to express it in a way that gets through to him.

Good point. And yeah, I've given up trying to figure out what Joss intended us to think...