next_to_normal | Food for thought

This is something I never noticed from "As You Were," which I only just picked up on while rereading the transcript. Here's Riley's speech to Buffy at the end of the episode (with Buffy's interjections edited out):

"Buffy, none of that means anything. It doesn't touch you. You're still the first woman I ever loved and the strongest woman I've ever known. And I'm not advertising this to the missus, but you're still quite the hottie. [...] So you're not in the greatest place right now. And maybe I made it worse. Wheel never stops turning, Buffy. You're up, you're down... it doesn't change what you are. And you are a hell of a woman."

Sound... familiar?

Here's Spike's speech from "Touched":

"I'm not asking you for anything. When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you. And I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy."

Seems interesting to me that two very different lovers of Buffy's would hit on such similar themes, even use the exact same wording at times. (Particularly when Riley's speech comes in an episode where Spuffy fans love to vilify him.) Don't know what it means, but it sure is interesting, and I've never seen it pointed out before.

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really? he says that? cause to me it always sounded like"it doesn't change what you are but... you look like hell woman!"

Kidding aside though, coming from Riley it just lacks real emotion, it sounds like something someone tells you when they don't know what else to tell you. It's an empty reassurance and bye bye.

Hee!

I think my point here, though, is that Riley and Spike are basically saying the same thing. So why is one an empty reassurance and one is the greatest romantic connection ever? Is it the wording? The delivery? The circumstances? It seems like people (Spike/Spuffy fans) are very quick to criticize Riley in this ep, but what he does is pretty similar to what Spike does later on. And it seems to have the right effect - Buffy takes the first step in fixing all the things that are screwed up in her life by ending her destructive relationship with Spike - so she clearly didn't see it as empty.

the greatest romantic connection ever? Is it the wording? The delivery? The circumstances?

See, I'm going through a spuffy disilusionmet phase so I can't really answer that but in a really superficial way, you know what I like from Spike's delivery? The fact that he's looking up at her and smiling. It's symbolic, he's saying he's probably not going to solve her problems but he's there even when he's surrendering (and yes, I'm seeing way too much in this)and he surrenders to his admiration for her. It's like he's pledging alliance no matter what, and he's aware of how bad thing can get.

A thing I don't like about Riley's speech is what comes before, when he offers to get rid of Spike (no not because he wants to kill my Spike) because is a reminder that he's following her lead despite what he wants and feels he should do. Riley thinks she can take care of things herself and knows that she will do the right thing but that's why he follows her lead because he's certain of Buffy's goodness, not because he knows what she's capable of. He's not compromising anything and, he talks to her as a part of her past, which thankfully she is, but you know it won't go further than that.

I think that the strength of Riley's speech lies in the fact, that a) it reminded her that she is strong and can handle tough decisions and b)came from someone who could expect her to be a hell of a woman, he wasn't involved in her life at that time and from an outsider's perspective straightening out her life is something that doesn't have to be too hard.

Riley makes objective sense is what I'm saying, and Buffy needed something to make sense at that moment.

Well *looks up* clearly I like Spike's speech, too, lol.

because is a reminder that he's following her lead despite what he wants and feels he should do.

Hmm... I think part of that is Riley's personality - he's a soldier, trained to follow orders, and in this case, Buffy has the authority, so he follows her order - but I think it's also a show of respect for Buffy's feelings. I mean, can you imagine how much it would have hurt Buffy if he'd gone ahead and killed Spike? I can't believe he would do that to her, no matter how much he hated Spike or thought he was a danger.

from an outsider's perspective straightening out her life is something that doesn't have to be too hard.

Yeah, I think that makes sense. Sometimes it takes an outsider to put things in perspective - you don't notice it as much when you're living it day in and day out, but an outsider can come in and easily see how much you've changed, and often point out a path you didn't recognize on your own.

Food for thought

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too long and not all that coherent reply

Re: too long and not all that coherent reply