Where are the female anti-heroes?

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I was listening to the Firewall & Iceberg Podcast today, and one of the topics they addressed was the fan reaction to the wives of anti-hero characters. Think Betty Draper, Skyler White, or Carmella Soprano - in any other context, they'd be the sympathetic partner, even considered a victim, but because their husbands (despicable as they may be) are the show's main characters, the women tend to get a lot of hate for (a) inadvertently complicating the husbands' secret lives, (b) trying to find out their secrets, and/or (c) daring to call them on their shit. As if wanting to know what your husband is hiding from you is an unreasonable expectation. As if being appalled is an inappropriate response to the revelation that he is a murderer/drug dealer/mob boss/cheater/scumbag/whatever.

Okay, preaching to the choir here, I know. Anyway, the comment that prompted this post was wondering whether the reaction would be the same if it were a female character who was the anti-hero, and her husband/partner was the one standing in the way of her criminal enterprise, or if their respective genders matter. Now, the podcast is made by dudes, so I'll forgive them for not knowing the obvious answer (yes, of course gender matters) and skip right to what I think is most interesting:

This is entirely a hypothetical question, because as far as I can tell, there are no female anti-heroes like that, much less ones with a hated spouse/partner to use as a comparison.

Seriously - can anyone think of one? Because I'd probably really like that story. The closest I can come up with is Veronica Mars, who's a ruthless and occasionally cruel person who has no qualms about breaking the law to get what she wants. The parallel is strongest in season 3 - before that, she's still the plucky, albeit flawed, heroine, whereas in season 3 she becomes flat-out unlikable at times. But even then, I don't think she ever reaches the level of a Don Draper or a Walter White.

Similarly, characters like Katniss or Buffy or Elena, although they may go through unlikable phases, never lose their "heroine" sheen. They're just good people going through remarkably difficult situations. And frequently THEY are the ones who get the fan hate, not their put-upon male partners, which goes back to the thing about gender influencing fan reactions.

I suppose that answers my own question about why there aren't more female characters that could be considered anti-heroes, doesn't it? If fans will react so negatively to flawed female heroines, God only knows how badly they'd eviscerate a female Don Draper. But y'all know how I love me some flawed characters, especially ladies, so if you can think of any - or have any other thoughts on the subject - please chime in!

Comments

[gabrielleabelle]

Does Lilah count? Though I guess she's more a villain turned sympathetic than an anti-hero. Hrm.

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Hey, it's Gabs! (No lie, when I was writing up this post, I was thinking, "Aw, man, too bad Gabs is on hiatus, because I bet she'd have thinky thoughts on this topic.")

So, naturally, I have high expectations of you... *waits for your brilliance*

[gabrielleabelle]

(Ha! I'm not checking my flist, but I'm tracking a few peeps. ;) *stalks you*)

I don't know that I have much brilliance. I think we're at a fumbling time for our media where there are some attempts to get better female characters out there, but there's a sore lack of established female protag tropes to draw on. I mean, I've been rewatching Star Trek TNG with Andrew, and we've both commented on the massive under-utilization of the women in what is ostensibly a progressive show.

I think part of it is Token Woman Syndrome. Wherein show/movie creators throw in a token woman cause it's the PC thing to do, but she has to represent ALL WOMEN which is nonsense, so she ends up being bland and boring. She's not a character. She's just a bone to throw to the women.

But then I also think that part of the anti-hero trope, specifically, is the fact that it's supposed to be relatable. I mean, we look up to heroes. They're who we want to be. But anti-heroes? They're who we actually are, and anti-hero media serves to reassure us that we can still be awesome regardless.

This is where the predominance of men in production and writing comes in because when you have characters that are so tied to a creator's (and intended audience's), it makes sense that they'd err on the side of their own gender. Men will create male anti-heroes that they relate to. They'll shy away from female anti-heroes because they can't relate to that. Instead, they'll give us Token Women because they figure that we'll (somehow) relate to that.

And my rambles have made me late to pick up Andrew from work. Look what you did!

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(ooooh, I feel special now!)

Men will create male anti-heroes that they relate to. They'll shy away from female anti-heroes because they can't relate to that.

Hmmmmmm, yeah, there's probably some truth to that. Although it still seems rather silly to me that these writers (who most certainly are not criminals) have no problem creating a "relatable" character who is a mob boss or a drug kingpin, but a woman? Now that's just stretching the imagination too far! *grumbles*

Tell Andrew I'm very sorry! :-P except I'm not really, because he's taking my Gabs away from me!

[gabrielleabelle]

Although it still seems rather silly to me that these writers (who most certainly are not criminals) have no problem creating a "relatable" character who is a mob boss or a drug kingpin, but a woman? Now that's just stretching the imagination too far! *grumbles*

Yeah, well. Men are discouraged from relating to (or liking) anything pertaining to women.

I feel like I have more thoughts, but I'm gonna have to sit on them for a bit.